Unedited conversations between artist in a productive critique  discovering  thesis and processes behind the work.








Conversation between Pioneer Winter and Olivia Ramos.


GIMP GAIT (2016)

screendance/film work


RAMOS:  ‪hi‬‬


thank you for joining me


WINTER:  ‪Hey, Olivia - good morning  ‬‬


‪good morning - how are you?‬‬


I'm good - just finished two back-to-back work-outs. Trying to up endurance for what I've gotten myself into for the February project.


‪what's going on in February?‬‬


‪Forced Entry and Other Love Stories‬‬


kind of a dance / physical theatre work - some text involved - mostly biographic as far as what the performers bring to it


‪if it is biographic, then were the performers involved in the choreography or do you allow the performers improvisation freedom during the piece?‬‬


‪there are a number of things we can do to keep the movement authentic.


I'm not the type of choreographer who asks the performers to mimic anything

so it's a pretty democratic process - just as long as the intention is clear and defined


I ask series of questions, give prompts or directives, sometimes the performers all have different prompts - even conflicting imperatives, where they are not all trying to achieve the same thing


I still 'order' the movement in that choreography does not mean that you select dance steps from a vocabulary list - like ballet or traditional modern - but the movement is generated from tasks that usually manifest is something outside the boundaries of known movement


so then choreography looses it's technical requirements?‬‬


sometimes it's as easy as exhausting the performers - having them do the movements backward, etc.‬‬


choreography isn't supposed to have requirements


I think the expectations we notice in less risky work is based upon a system that caters to preserving rather than discovering


‪i like that‬‬


me too lol‬‬


‪and i believe it in painting for example‬‬


if i plan exactly what i will paint, there is really nothing for me in the experience of doing


i guess that is comparable to dance/performance


you want to have a general gesture and learn from the doing


‪right - we should try not to impose a final image on the work‬‬


very nice‬‬


sometimes I work from images - like flashes - and then I work backward from that point‬‬


but that's also why choosing your cast is so important


I like performers that are open to the process and don't want to just be told what to do


‪i wonder what it would be like to create a film this way‬‬


no script


only situations of sorts


‪In 2012, we did a 'music video' in the then-abandoned 4th floor of LegalArt/Cannonball - we didn't plan a thing‬‬


But in the editing, a storyline of sorts was formed


some choreographers work in chance - Merce Cunningham, Bill t. Jones, Trisha Brown


It takes an intense amount of concentration


‪concentration + awareness + compassion + selflessness‬‬


and even then, they've created rules or phrases that are remixed or re-ordered, or there's a toolbox for the performers to choose from‬‬


all kinds of things to generate a narrative with others‬‬


Michael Klien also works this way‬‬


yes, or to take the narrative out of the hands of everyone involved - almost make it double-blind so to speak


I still prefer to control the trajectory of whatever narrative may be emerging, sometimes the narrative changes further along in the process and I'm happy to reassess and change too


let's shift a minute and tell me a little about Gimp Gait‬‬





Gimp Gait was a live performance (I say live because now it's making its rounds as a short film) commissioned by Karen Peterson and Dancers


‪It's the first time I've worked in mixed ability or physically integrated dance‬‬


That was truly collaborative in that I couldn't assume anything about the other performer - we worked as a duet - the concept and choreography my own, but the outcome was based upon reality informing concept


the reality of her body, her strength, my strength, my body, our ages and age differences - 28 going on 29 for me, 49 going on 50 for her


‪it is hard to describe as a viewer what forms of emotion are triggered‬‬

it is one of the most beautiful and honest performances


‪do you worry about her?‬‬


no i don't at all‬‬


do you think I'm exploiting her?‬‬


no not at all


‪i am so happy for her‬‬


‪those were some of our thoughts in making the work‬‬


more so live than the film adaptation


‪that never crossed my mind‬‬


i wouldn't think she didn't completely want to do this


and more than anything i admire both your courage for taking this on


how did you start this conversation?


started with a few little things‬‬


attempting to strap a speaker to my back, where the music would play from, so I would be encumbered and design some equity between us


tried having her drag me around at high speeds


eventually I realized that if I let the power wheelchair stay, I could fall into the same tropes many choreographers fall into when doing mixed ability work - that is, it become therapeutic


I hate therapeutic


or the 'able-bodied' dancer has a body dialogue/interacts with the chair more than the person sitting in the chair


so we x'd the chair - it's still present, sort of ominous, but she leaves it at the very start of the work and the viewer never sees her return to it


was this Marjorie's first performance?‬‬


No - Marjorie has been performing longer than me. I believe her first performance was in early 90's. she was 22-25 yrs of age I think‬‬

she's 50 now


but she's been mostly in her chair


she's been taken out of it before - carried, reclined on the floor, etc.


but not for an entire dance


and not in this 'fuck you' context


the chair makes her look small - it's around 460 lbs


i think Marj is a very imposing figure when removed from the freedoms/confines of the chair


we call it a solo for two - i take the back seat and enact Marjorie's power. I'm like a surrogate. But the will is Marjorie's.‬‬


and how do you feel during the performance? are you simply hyper aware of her movements and connected to her guidance?‬‬


yes - hyper-aware - following her pace‬‬


it's pretty uncomfortable for both of us


I feel a lot of intense back pain - I have an imperative that I can't drop her - trying to be aware of her vulnerability but not baby her


and she feels a lot of exhaustion from standing on her own legs, walking, rolling over, sitting up, keeping her head up


last year she had 3 surgeries - I believe neck and spine - so things like rolling over, crawling, and holding her head up take effort and concentration


But things will continue to get harder for her to do - that's why it's so important for us to make this work now


‪how would you describe the large scale intention of this work‬‬


When I was commissioned to make the duet with Marjorie, I was already working on a physical theatre work called HOST for five men. So there was a lot of bleeding between the two works initially - mostly looking at power, authority of the viewer's gaze, performative expectations‬‬


and beyond the performance, this is work that defies the norms in many ways, in the least hyper-inclusive


what is the intention beyond the industry?


The summer before I did a study with 5 sandbags - about 35 lbs each - another dancer stood on stage and gave me orders - I had to go for as long as possible. I found in that study that my will increased when my body sort of decayed or fatigued


I've found it's similar with Marj - it's pure willpower, hardheadedness, guts whatever


well, I think in general we tend to infantilize people living with disability


even expectations of dress are questionable


for example, another dancer who is also living with disability asked Marjorie "why'd Pioneer make you naked"


Ummmm it's a dance and she's wearing biker shorts and a sports bra - much more clothing than you'd see on most sugar plum fairies


even within the disabled community, there's an expectation to hide distortions in musculature, scar from surgeries, moomoos are preferable to de-sexualize


‪yes there is‬‬


‪Also I think Gimp Gait brought up some interesting layers of unintentional prejudice -  introducing Marjorie to friends who automatically raise their voice, talk baby-talk, or somehow change the way they normally engage‬‬.