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Oil on Canvas
18 x 25"
Castillo: is it an image or a painting?
Ramos: it is an image of a painting
Castillo: but are we going to talk about it as an image or a painting?
Ramos: why does it have to be one or the other?
Castillo: because you talk about systems
each has a language and systems that they can move though
which is why, is the painting your primary concern or just a secondary one in the attempt at getting to an image?
Ramos: does the image have a higher hierarchy for you?
not sure if secondary means less important
Castillo: no, but they both don't share the same language
if you're using painting as a means to an end then image is obviously more important
if you are attempting to make paintings then we can go about this conversation an entirely different way
Ramos: I can't be doing both in parallel?
Castillo: I'm not sure you can if the main concern is talking about systems
or working with systems as a starting point
Ramos: and you are assuming that is the main concern... how come?
Castillo: from your statement
Ramos: the title?
Castillo: so I'm totally starting off with 100 assumptions
i mean it's funny, seeing the bacon book and then seeing the title of this painting
Francis Bacon: The Logic of Sensation
Ramos: the book is relevant
anything Deleuze puts on paper
but particularly his take on Bacon's work
you think the book is about image?
Castillo: i guess what I'm trying to understand is if the paintings are just the byproduct of trying to say something else in the action of painting
something else using the act of painting i should say
Ramos: how do you describe the inverse
painting without content?
Castillo: i don't know if thats the inverse, wouldn't it be more like generative painting where the content moves between paintings?
it's always hard to begin a painting conversation for me because i wonder about the reasons for painting or for using paint on canvas in order to get ideas out in the world
Ramos: I like the idea of content moving between paintings
Castillo: cause theres this
which essentially ends up being a byproduct of
and goes back into the conversation that art is now functioning as currency or how I've heard someone say it before liquid capital
and I don't think your going for this
Ramos: I'm not sure what "this" is exactly
art has always been a currency
Castillo: i don't think it's been currency in the same way it's being manipulated now
Ramos: you mean after the Mona Lisa effect?
(Mona Lisa curse)
The Mona Lisa Curse
1 hour, 14 min., 50 sec.
Castillo: it's an hour long
well Mona Lisa is different
she was literally the first painting to have to much media visibility
she's literally the most reproduced image
and thats something she's held the title for since the early 1900s
Ramos: according to Hughes, after the Mona Lisa came to the states in 1963, art shifted into celebrity icon... and all about money.
is being on Art Rank a goal or a consequences?
Castillo: being on art rank is just an example of the functionality of art
more so than something you work towards
personally i think you failed at making art if it has a function
Ramos: what if the function is communication
Castillo: and if it eventually ends up becoming currency then it's back into functionality
Ramos: the art doesn't become a currency, the artist does
Castillo: no way
is dealing with art at auction
the artist functions like a country
Ramos: it is ranking the artist
Ramos: so the value is in the artist
not in the particular piece
Castillo: but it only effects people who want to buy and sell art work second hand
Ramos: nobody cares about the piece at that point
Castillo: well yeah
Ramos: which is a value attached to the artist
not the work
and therefore the artist is the currency
Castillo: no it's their work
Ramos: it matters
Castillo: yes, it states the artist because it really won't make sense just putting a body of work
i don't even see them as artists at this point
because it's a production line
artist as brand
not artist as human
Ramos: how would you describe the work before it gets to this rank?
is it more authentic?
Castillo: not at all
it goes back into this thing i mentioned right before
zombie formalism / crapstration
theres a formula
that we as humans inherently follow
when we're heading towards that paper
Ramos: so it's never about the work?
Castillo: i mean even if it is the fact that now it holds a function really changes it i feel
it's like self replicating nano bots
I've had your painting next to this chatbox the whole time
mentally i keep going back to it
so instead of wondering I'm going to ask why do you use painting in order to communicate your ideas?
where is this work coming from?
Ramos: i find painting to be the least limiting of all the medias I've tried
and also the most challenging
Castillo: where are the limits with other medias that painting seems to have no reason to hold you back
why is it the most challenging? what's your end game with painting?
Ramos: for example, collage is limiting in the sense that I can't blur the edges of the image, or paper
or I can't scale or produce transparencies
most challenging because it's limitless
the challenge is to create rules for myself, in each piece
there are no parameters inherent in painting
my end game, there is no end game
that's the beauty of limitless
Castillo: i don't think there are any parameters inherent with any of the things we choose to use as tools.
Castillo: and if your using painting as a tool are you painting?
Ramos: did I call it a tool?
perhaps a tool for discovery
a tool for new forms of communication
Castillo: i only imply because of the way we're speaking about it. maybe I'm totally extracting that from our conversation
Ramos: i think it's valid
I'm trying to understand what you consider painting
can you describe that?
Oil on Canvas, 1911
140 x 95 cm
Ramos: what makes it a painting
Castillo: i know it's really cliche
Castillo: i dunno, i'm going to butcher everything right now. it's completely personal for me in terms of how i understand painting and how i understand things as paintings
i put it into context with the times when their being produced
thats why while i also hate this crapstraction it really is a sign of the times
and to get back to your painting i'm trying to find the urgency in making these paintings
Ramos: you managed not to answer the question
it's really complicated
which is why i keep going in circle about why you're using painting as the way to express your ideas
theres a sensibility, i think thats it
theres always a sensibility with painting
Ramos: i'm hoping painting shows me something I am not able to describe otherwise
Castillo: please elaborate
Ramos: the urgency is in articulating how to coexist within our environment and since painting is limitless perhaps there I can find some clarity or get closer
how to move forward as humanoids
Castillo: but why painting
Ramos: painting allows access into the unknown
into my subconscious
because I don't see before I paint
as opposed to orchestrating an image
Castillo: your still orchestrating an image
even if it's based on formal judgments
or non formal judgments
Ramos: you can argue that, but for me it is a loss of control and manipulation and therefore allowing something else to come through
I become the tool, as opposed to the paint
Castillo: i can't accept that because the goal is always a discernible image with points of reference
here the title brings me to Bacon which is reinforced by the image and then there are a network of drains
Ramos: systems, infrastructural systems, they work more like the body, since infrastructure is an extension of our bodies... what does that architecture feel like, those are my parameters
Castillo: theres this work that Robert Gober did for a year called slides of a changing painting
“It was met with a yawn,” Gober says. “I put it away and kind of forgot about it.”
Yet the imagery continued to bubble to the surface. Flood calls “Slides” the “Rosetta Stone” of Gober’s oeuvre. Gober says it wasn’t until five years later that he realized the drain sculpture he’d been struggling to get right was pictured in the earlier piece. He has since returned to “Slides” again and again, like a visual journal.
Ramos: can you imagine this project being done with clay?
so what is the extension of the painting in the real world bringing it back to architecture and it's relation to the body
Ramos: no necessarily, architecture is much too slow
the extension is in the process of painting and how quickly and far it can go
there is no point in "bringing it back"
it's about moving forward, fast
Castillo: but it's still an object in the world
and that object has a very slow life in comparison to us
Ramos: are you referring to architecture or the painting?
Castillo: there is no fast with painting
Ramos: panting is much faster than architecture
Castillo: not architecture in Miami