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Conversation between Adler Guerrier and Olivia Ramos.

 

Kerry James Marshall

 

RAMOS:  ‪thank you for joining me

‬‬

GUERRIER:  ‪pleasure‬‬

 

how was california?

 

‪life-changing. .. at least Singularity University was‬‬

 

happy to be home

 

‪wow‬‬

 

‪what?‬‬

 

‪i hope to see the effect of it all?‬‬

 

life changing

 

and what you have learned

 

‪me too - being there was a career awakening, I am hoping to keep momentum... sometimes when you have an awakening it can be fleeting‬‬

 

‪let's hope it is long-lasting

 

‪yes‬‬

 

i really hope so

 

so i've asked you here today because i want to know everything you know about Miami Art Basel

 

‪everything‬‬

 

hilarious

 

‪why is that funny‬‬

 

‪like what?‬‬

 

some of everything isn't noteworthy

 

but, i get your point

 

‪ok ok - well let's make some ground rules‬‬

 

‪where do we start?‬‬

 

perhaps it would be helpful to differentiate between knowledge and knowing‬‬

 

‪is there a difference?‬‬

 

yes and i think in this case it is helpful‬‬

 

‪to have knowledge is to know‬‬

 

‪no not really - humor this for a second‬‬

 

so knowledge is a collection of things of the mind

 

there is a difference in having knowledge and having information‬‬

 

‪i'll rephrase the above... knowledge is a collection of information‬‬

 

knowing is an understanding that can't be traced

 

‪knowing is also traceable understanding‬‬

 

so knowing reflect understanding

 

rather than just having information

 

‪maybe, yes - but for example... faith is a form of knowing‬‬

 

yes,‬‬

 

‪faith is also a form of understanding‬‬

 

so yes then - knowing = understanding

 

and knowledge = information

 

do we agree there?

 

no‬‬

 

knowledge doesn't equal info

 

knowledge is what you have when you know

 

info is the encyclopedia

 

knowledge is reading/understanding entries in the encyclopedia

 

knowledge is gained through understanding the entries in..‬‬

 

‪i am willing to change the equal sign for sure‬‬

 

so knowing is a collection of understandings

 

‪and knowledge is a collection of information

 

‪knowing is active‬‬‬‬

 

‪i cant agree that knowledge is a collection of information‬‬

information is there

 

a collection of information is a thing

 

knowledge can only be gained by extracting from the collection to the point of understanding‬‬

 

there is a threshold to go over

 

to gain knowledge

 

‪no‬‬

 

not really

 

newton sat under a tree many times‬‬

 

he saw falling apples before

 

yet, one day, a falling apple is understood to be and effect of gravity

the info was always there

 

the knowledge came in time

 

‪Newton had knowledge that apples fell‬‬

 

‪Newton had a moment of knowing that gravity existed‬‬

 

understanding what gravity is took time‬‬

 

he observed apple falling from a tree to the ground

 

that is knowledge about apple falling

 

knowledge about gravity came later

 

‪knowledge about gravity came way later - first there was a knowing about gravity‬‬

 

knowledge as understanding is work.‬‬

 

yes, there were previous understanding of gravity

 

the apple falling was understood

 

planets orbiting stars

 

and correlating the two phenomenon in one theory

 

that is knowledge

 

‪ok ok - i think we have too many variables‬‬

 

how about we use understanding and information rather than knowing and knowledge

 

sure‬‬

 

ok, art fairs

 

‪wait - just so we are clear - there was plenty of information leading to Newton's understanding of gravity‬‬

 

yes‬‬

 

‪but the understanding of gravity as a silos is quite remarkable and untraceable‬‬

 

all that to say - i am interested in your understanding of Art Basel

 

‪why would you say untraceable?‬‬

 

because gravity on it's own - the force itself, between two objects, is only apparent if the objects are present‬‬

 

however the force exist on it's own

 

let's stop there and go back to the subject of the day.‬‬

 

sure - it is related I promise‬‬

 

ok‬‬

 

‪so tell me about Art Basel‬‬

 

what is it really?

 

‪it is a fair‬‬

 

‪lol‬‬

 

where artworks is presented, sold and distributed?‬‬

 

ok that's information‬‬

 

partly distributed‬‬

 

yes

 

I am not sure if it is more than that

 

as a fair, it is an event

 

and this particular one happening in miami

 

seems to be a big deal

 

what interest you about it?

 

‪why is it such a big deal?‬‬

 

I am not sure frankly.‬‬

 

but by some some reported numbers,

 

by the mere fact, some other fairs happen at the same time in the different cities

 

but i am not sure there is another fair happening the first week December, elsewhere‬‬

 

the buying and selling goods occurs in markets

 

in the art market seems to like to be in Miami for a few days

 

those outside of the markets cant always very the claims of the market

 

‪it is good for Miami's economy‬‬

 

so, what do you find interesting about it?‬‬

 

from what you are saying, what stands out to me is that the art market goes to a warm place in the winter‬‬

 

a warm place to do business‬‬

 

similar to the boat show

 

and the furniture show

 

they are all fair

 

we live in a city that can host such things

 

so it has little to do with our particular art market‬‬

little to do with Miami's art world

 

yes‬‬

 

the same way boat show may not reflect Miami's boating industry

 

art markets are global

 

and Miami is global

 

well Miami has a pretty great boating market‬‬

 

yep,‬‬

 

some might say the same about art market

 

‪yes - i hear that ... but there is a clear disconnect between the fairs and the local scene - would you agree?‬‬

 

yes‬‬

 

‪little integration might be more appropriate‬‬

 

‪true‬‬

 

you'd think that Miami artist would steal the show‬‬

 

no‬‬

 

would be the featured artist‬‬

 

why not?

 

well, the art world is large‬‬

 

and there are many great artists who are barely visible in Miami

 

and during the fair week, they are still great

 

example,

 

i love kerry james marshall's works

 

no one in miami can steal the show from kerry

 

‪on the contrary‬‬

 

I would see Kerry totally stealing the show

 

KJM is always in the fair‬‬

 

what fair?‬‬

 

ABMB‬‬

 

zwirmer

 

before shaiman

 

but this competitive analysis is wrong

 

it plays right in the hand of a capitalist market

 

a market that champions what it considers to be the best, the show-stopper, etc,

 

‪the idea for more Miami integration in the fair should be about sustaining Miami's art scene‬‬

 

‪yes‬‬

 

and boost the regional presence while a global moment is happening‬‬

 

‪how do you suggest we do that?‬‬

 

we already begun‬‬

 

‪how?‬‬

 

art miami was a dominant‬‬

 

wait a minute - let's go back a few lines here‬‬

 

it shifted to parallel abmb, in order to be present in the moment with the most audience‬‬

 

‪Kerry James Marshall is not a Miami artist‬‬

 

no‬‬

 

is based in Chicago

 

GUERRIER:  ‪He is great‬‬

 

and abmb allows me to see a few of his paintings every year

 

an art world/artmarket global moment, right here on MB

 

‪i agree and that's what I love about Art Basel‬‬

 

what Miami artist can an art basel visitor be excited about?‬‬

 

again championing individual miami artist

‬‬

i dont know

 

Most venues offer to the art world their best for november‬‬

 

maimi contributes to the event

 

so, lynne gelfman at Noguchi Breton

 

kathleen hudspeth at under the bridge

 

yanira collado at bridge red

 

autumn casey at primamry

 

there are good shows

 

one point, miami may not properly support its own

 

and yet wants the global art world  to pay attention

 

‪that is a very interesting point‬‬

 

‪we need to support and champion art‬‬

 

even if the rest of the world is not looking

 

that's how we'd sustain Miami's art scene‬‬

 

‪we have not spoken about sustainability

 

but this is a gesture towards sustaining

 

......

 

‬‬my position is fixed, art fairs aren't special, they are part of the market‬‬

‬‬

you never told me what interest you in art fairs?

 

nothing - i really dislike them‬‬

 

why?‬‬

 

you never said‬‬

 

‪they are exhausting‬‬

 

no,‬‬

 

nothing integral to them

 

last year, I spent one hour at abmb

 

30 minutes just inside the door talking to miami people

 

i barely saw anything

 

‪right - i enjoy watching the people at the fair more than the art work‬‬

everything feels rushed, forced, pushed

 

‪that's funny‬‬

 

you can people watch on Lincoln rd everyday

 

not the same‬‬

 

this audience is very particular

 

true‬‬

 

‪i suspect many share this with you‬‬

 

and many who complain about abmb are complaining about things others than market, capital, stardom, sustainability

 

as an insider in the Miami art world - as an integral artist - does it feel like Miami is used, abused, stretched thin, savored, chewed up, and left to die until next year?‬‬

 

no‬‬

 

good‬‬

 

i'm happy you don't feel that way

 

‪there is evidence pointing the other way‬‬

 

‪that Miami is infused with culture that lingers on to make a more potent art world?‬‬

 

‪yes‬‬

 

‪good‬‬

 

i'm trying to get a feel for that

 

‪from more and more rich people doing things in Miami

 

to art being in neighborhoods far from the beach