Unedited conversations between artist in a productive critique discovering thesis and processes behind the work.
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RAMOS: i feel completely overwhelmed, body mind and soul
AVENDANO: How so?
I mean I completely understand that I am an overwhelming person
not from you
in comparison to the last one, would you agree that it is more political?
AVENDANO: i would say more political in comparison to 143
RAMOS: or maybe not political but anti-spiritual?
AVENDANO: anti-spiritual is ironic
i feel like there was always a guiding spirit
it just guides you into so many directions that it results into chaos
RAMOS: it was an overload of sex, politics, and technology, used in the strangest way
AVENDANO: SHOUT OUT MTV FOR BEING SUCH A POSITIVE INFLUENCE ON MY UPBRINGING
the video is the experience of my teens and twenties in a snapshot
AVENDANO: i attempted that in some sense
tamani means "desire" in Swahili
and for that i tried to explore desire and the multitudes of them
each in separate trajectories traveling through an airport
RAMOS: i'm not sure what you meant by "traveling through an airport"
but i want to say desire is such a subjective concept
AVENDANO: the idea of each sentiment being a metaphorical individual, traveling with several other individuals, at a center of transport, in a chaotic manner
desire is completely subjective and thats kinda the fun in it
it is the most subjective standard of objectivity that we hold ourselves to
RAMOS: i see the airport analogy - as if being able to visualize everyone's mind at once
except everyone's mind is really your mind right?
these are your desires? aren't they?
AVENDANO: and memories and my desires
ya caught me red handed
so you desire a whole lotta booty
AVENDANO: EVERYONE LOVES THE BOOTY
so very much so, these are desires that i have had, or currently have
RAMOS: yes... but theres more, and i was joking about the booty
theres a kind of soul sickness
AVENDANO: they also completely encapsulate the collective desire
desire to be beautiful
to be adorned
to be rich and nerdy as bill gates (i think thats my own one)
RAMOS: i see
AVENDANO: ah yea the soul sickness
what did you feel?
RAMOS: would you agree that if there is a desire for such, it is because it is lacking?
AVENDANO: of course, i'm just a black hole moonlighting as a charmingly sane person
RAMOS: right... i felt that
i felt a hunger to fill a void that never ends
i felt an insatiable need for more
AVENDANO: did you feel hopeful to find some finite end
RAMOS: i don't think it ever ends
AVENDANO: its very visceral in that need for more, and i wanted this to be private in viewing for this very reason
its like sitting alone at Golden Corral going to gorge yourself into exaltation with everyone watching you and no one murmuring to you
RAMOS: omg that's crazy... i actually drove by one yesterday
AVENDANO: at ICA where it was first shown, I intended for a private TV screen with two headphones vs the option of projection, to literally suck you into my gravitational pull
whats funny about the hole is how it relates to memories and how the desire trajectories play themselves out
rewatching it makes me fast rewatch chunks of my life
RAMOS: for me this insatiable need for more is the anti-spiritual
AVENDANO: how so?
doesn't the spirit guide you in directions
it doesn't have to be a great direction, but still, a vector of time
RAMOS: many things can guide you - but as i understand it, and this is totally personal and therefore telling of my experience with the video, spiritual is feeling whole with what we have, not wanting more, or at least not this more that can never be fulfilled
AVENDANO: hmm interesting
because spirits lead you to places of wholeness
which was down the street of this place, but i totally walked past it
RAMOS: why do you speak of spirit as if it is separate from you?
AVENDANO: this place is a place of wholeness as well
besides a whole lotta booty
but wholeness in the the humanist fervor for wanting growth, become perfect, approaching an unattainable limit of satisfaction
and static nature, complacency, all that
its so passe
spirit is totally separate
i'm the x plane and spirit is on the y plane
RAMOS: so then what are you if not spirit
before i address that which you feel is passé
AVENDANO: i am body willed in a direction, or in my esteemed case, a blob of crisco
i feel as if static nature is so passe
RAMOS: but why does there have to be a limit?
what if everything is exponential and eternal?
AVENDANO: true, it just approaches some infinity that we cant count with our fingers and toes and calculators
it is outside of us
RAMOS: what if it's not.. .and we are simply incarnate versions of it
we are all very much so in the image of Icarus
we strive for this version of unachievable greatness
RAMOS: Icarus had the right idea
just went the wrong way
AVENDANO: I love being shot down by the forces unforeseeably stronger than us
is there ever a right way
thats the fun part almost
playing out these permutations
what would happen if he were right
RAMOS: well in regards to Icarus yes... the right way would have been anywhere but towards the sun
and in regards to us, the right way might be away from the insatiable void
AVENDANO: but he had to go towards the sun to be with the gods
RAMOS: the gods are not in the sun!
AVENDANO: and this is where it ties into why this is more of a memory reel of my life than trajectories
not in the sun, but in the sky
RAMOS: i understand ... and it is nostalgic for me as well
but also telling, as a reflection of contemporary states of being
AVENDANO: particularly the memory reel of this red blob that is supposed to hold the spirit
but instead holds the archives of these desires for your to playback
of course, we are all like Icarus, and that fervor drives us to try again until we perish
however if we succeed and do not perish, that future that i have no idea what it entails, is what i'm intrigued and sometimes afraid of
RAMOS: tell me about the music and trajectory
the music is staccato in nature
AVENDANO: this is the first video piece that i scored AFTER the video is made
before, my videos were more of music videos, accompaniments for the sounds
its staccato in part of the sharp jabs in movement, the quick decisions in permutations of decisions
but it follows a haunting feeling of memory
memories we look at on our phones because we enjoy torturing ourselves
but with those memories are the duality of joy and pain
the staccato describes the emulsion of the two distinct sentiments
RAMOS: both joy as in jubilation and sharp pain can be staccatoesque
peaceful joy and quiet pain, constant pain is something else
which is also telling of your experiences... all very intense
so the trajectory
there are clear "chapters" to this video
that they correspond to
and the memories, especially with the person that they are tied to
RAMOS: but i wouldn't know that as the viewer unless i was that person?
or is it obscure to them as well?
its just me projecting
remember, i'm just a black hole who moonlights as someone charming
RAMOS: and the time-lapse is over how many years?
AVENDANO: um since um
i guess 13, my kindergarten gf doesn't really count i presume
RAMOS: wait... this is all about girls?